(The majority of the inspiration and information gleaned for this blog post was from the excellent and thorough What the Bible Really Says About Routine Infant Circumcision by Laura Jezek, and the Whole Christian Network, a faith-based anti-circumcision activism group. If you would like more information, beyond what I have outlined here, I highly encourage you to check those two amazing resources out!)
The Biblical Act of Circumcision
First off, before embarking on any kind of faith based discussion of circumcision, it is important to clarify that the circumcision that Abraham and his descendants practiced was something entirely different from modern circumcision. Biblical circumcision merely involved cutting the tip of the foreskin, not completely removing it!
Simply put, God never ordained that the foreskin or any other part of the human body should be amputated (i.e. his creation destroyed). Our modern invention of foreskin amputation took place in Victorian times when several doctors and psychiatrists came up with the idea in hopes of discouraging masturbation. It didn’t work, but the practice soon became ingrained as “tradition”.
To quote Lori from the Laurel of Leaves blog:
The Hebrew word used to describe Old Testament circumcision is “namal”. Namal means “clipped,” like you might clip your fingernails. There are totally different words used in Hebrew for “cut off” or “removed.”
The whole idea of circumcision as it was ordained by God at that time in history was that a little blood would be drawn as a symbol. It was a symbol of the sin of the world, which would eventually be repaid by the Messiah. God-ordained circumcision was in the same category as animal sacrifices (another symbolic tradition with blood that found its fulfillment in Jesus).
Also think about how you as a parent would feel when you saw your son being circumcised. Imagine the pain as a parent knowing what your child is having to endure. Then imagine the pain of the Father as He watches His only Son endure the pain of suffocating to death on a cross in order to take the sin of the world into hell and pay for it Himself. (But don’t forget that God never asked His people to mutilate any part of the male genitalia. Clipping a tiny bit of the foreskin to draw blood is nothing like amputating the entire thing.)
You can read more about the Biblical practice of circumcision and how it differs from American circumcision by checking out Christian Parents and the Circumcision Issue by James E. Peron, MS, Ed.D.
Where Circumcision Falls Within Your Faith
Right off the bat, we need to establish that circumcision – whether old school Hebrew “clipping” or New Age Victorian “removal” – is NOT a requirement for Christian faith.
This issue was resolved long ago by the apostle Paul and the early Church. Circumcision has absolutely nothing to do with your salvation. It is one of many Old Testament requirements that ended the moment that Jesus Christ died for our sins. Circumcision had to do with the Old Testament relationship between God and the Jews. It has NEVER been a requirement for Christians.
To quote the articulate Miss Jezek:
There is no room for debate or speculation. Christians are forbidden by Scripture from practicing routine infant circumcision by the New Testament. There are only two sets of Christians who still circumcise their sons: Those who do not know the Bible well enough to know what it teaches about the subject, and those who know but simply do not care (the Bible isn’t their measure of living, their own mindset is.)
Circumcising Outside Of God’s Mandates
All things have their place in history. But when you take archaic Biblical commands that are now void and null, and try to inject them into modern day living, that is nothing short of willful disobedience that is a slap in the face of God. God delights in the pointless and forced mutilation of Christian babies genitalia against their will about as much as he’d delight in my pointlessly sacrificing a goat and splashing it’s blood against my local churches altar. And how much more so the barbarity of the action in God’s eyes if I acknowledge, “I know it’s not required of me.. I just WANT to do it”?
God does a lot of things with a plan and a purpose, and circumcision certainly was at one time within God’s plans. But a temporary season of salvation through symbolic sacrificial blood does not justify the needless genital mutilation of young men today, in this era.
The act of genital mutilation in young boys against their will is no better than the senseless act of genital mutilation in young girls. Pro-circumcision defenders are no better than pro-“choice” defenders, trying to justify child murder. When circumcision – outside of God’s will – is foisted upon an unconsenting child, it is a form of child abuse and sexual assault. (The United States currently holds this view for female circumcision, and male circumcision is a far more invasive and dangerous procedure. On a scale of human rights, circumcision is circumcision, regardless of sex.)
Just like the pro-abortion movement, the concept that needs grasping is that it’s NOT your body, therefore it is NOT your choice to make.
At one time in our dark world history salvation was paid for through blood and sacrifice. It wasn’t joyous. It wasn’t pretty. It was ugly and horrid and necessary for propitiation of sins. Well, now Christ has paid that ultimate price for us. Anyone – especially Christians – who insist on perpetuating and needlessly carving up their sons genital’s is not acting from a stance of faith or love, but of selfish personal preference.
It does not take a Biblical scholar to see that when it comes to forcibly holding a screaming child down and cutting away healthy skin from his body, and leaving him permanently scarred against his will – that’s one step above child abuse and one step below abortion.
Does Circumcision Fulfill Your Christian Mandate To Love, Protect and Nurture Your Son?
Any medical procedure performed on your child should be fully evaluated in light of your Christian obligation to love, protect, and nurture him.
Under accepted bioethical principles, parents can consent to surgery on behalf of a child ONLY if it is necessary to protect the child’s life or health. “Routine” circumcision fails this test because it painfully and permanently removes a normal and healthy part of a boy’s penis, does not protect the child’s life or health, and in fact creates new risks. (Click to here to read my article, “Infant Circumcision vs. Adult Circumcision: Why Waiting Is Best” for details on the risks and health concerns of infant circumcision.)
As Christian parents you need to be aware that no medical group in the world associated with child health supports the routine circumcision of male infants. Removing the foreskin is no more justified than removing a finger or any other healthy body part.
It really should be a no-brainer, especially for Christians who have historically stood for human rights and protections, that children should be protected from permanent bodily alteration inflicted on them without their consent.
Since routine circumcision is not supported by Christian teaching, and the medical community universally states, “There are no valid medical indications for the routine circumcision of baby boys”, the choice of loving and compassionate Christian parents should be obvious.
If a Christian chooses to force circumcision on the helpless infant that God entrusted to their care, it is NOT born out of Scripture, medical necessity or even love. It is by default a matter of personal preference and conformity.
How the Bible Views Conformity With the Ways of the World
“I’m willing to let my baby experience this so he’ll look like his daddy.”
“I prefer the look of a circumcised penis.”
“I want this for him, and that is all that matters.”
Conformity, for conformity’s sake, is a sin according to the Bible. No longer can parents say “I want junior to look like the other boys his age” since over 90% will be intact by the time he is using public bathrooms and locker rooms. He will be the minority, living with the choices that his parents made for him, without regard to his thoughts, feelings, or preferences.
Conformity, even if it had any virtue (which it doesn’t) needs to be tempered with common sense. If Daddy had lost a thumb in a hunting accident, would you want your son’s hand to look just like Daddy’s? Of course not. Nor should a loving father desire that his imperfections be foisted upon his sons perfectly formed body. We must use the common sense God gave us.
“I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” – Romans 12:1-2
It is NOT your place to shape, mold or mutilate your sons body to fit societies – or your – idea of conformity or perfection. To follow the ways of the world, and indulge in actions that mutilate the perfect body God gave you, is a sin. How much more so if you do it to the tiny body that God entrusted to your care?
“You adulterous people! Do you not know that conformity with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.” – James 4:4
Practicing Circumcision Is Anti-Christ: New Testament Scripture On Circumcision
(Notes and commentary from Laura Jezek.)
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us.” – Galations 3:13
Paul teaches here that circumcision was meant to be a curse. No one is supposed to WANT to do this to their babies! Christ has been the substitution for our children, that our sons should never have to shed their blood again.
“Behold, I Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing!” – Galations 5:2
Enough said.
“You were running well, who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you.” – Galations 5:7
No matter who or what is persuading you to circumcise your baby boy, know for sure, this persuasion is NOT coming from God. There has never been any form of mutilation that has been acceptable in God’s eyes, with the one exception of the Old Covenant ritual to foreshadow Christ’s sacrifice. To circumcise a baby for any reason other than that, is abhorrent to God.
“I wish that those who are pushing you to do so would mutilate themselves!” – Galations 5:12
Have you ever heard Paul so intense about anything? Mutilation is his word. And it will come up again.
“Beware of the dogs! Beware of the evil workers! Beware of the mutilation! For we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and put no confidence in the flesh!” – Philippians 3:2
Paul has three things to say about those who would still practice routine circumcision after the ushering in of the New Covenant and the final sacrifice made by Christ. First, he calls them dogs, the lowest of insulting terms in those days. Second, he calls them evil workers. Scripture is clear: maiming an individual, outside of a direct order from God, is evil and morally unacceptable. Third, Paul minces no words; he calls unordained circumcision what it really is – mutilation. This is the second time Paul uses this term.
Finally, Peter – who spent his time ministering to Jewish believers – summed up the absurdity of the controversy. He knew that any involvement with things like circumcision or animal sacrifice, in light of Christ’s work on the Cross, was blasphemous and sacrilegious.
“For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandments delivered to them. It has thus happened to them according to the true Proverb: ‘A dog returns to its own vomit’ and ‘A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mud.'” – 1 Peter 2:20-22
Paul called those who would continue circumcision “dogs,” and truly anyone who would desire the continuation of something so morbid and unpleasant (something God says in Galations 3:13 was meant to be a “curse”), would truly be the equivalent of a dog returning to its vomit. We should praise God every day that He set us free from chopping up animals on an altar and slicing our babies with knives. The relief He intended us to feel should flood our soul whenever we think of it. How perverse that some would still be blood-thirsty enough to crave what God Himself sees as detestable.
I respect your opinion but I think you should be open to the other side. My sons are now grown and thankful that they were circumcised for a variety of reasons. Please do not demonize people for having a different opinion. I feel insulted by this post.
I am only quoting Scripture, I am sorry it offends you. You are lucky your sons are happy with the choice you made for them, I know many men who are not – and some that suffer medical complications from the unnecessary procedure that THEY (and their wives) have to live with for the rest of their lives… not their mothers.
I encourage you to look at my previous post, Infant Circumcision vs. Adult Circumcision: Why Waiting Is Best. http://www.domesticgeekgirl.com/health-home/infant-circumcision-vs-adult-circumcision-why-waiting-is-best/
You are VERY lucky your sons did not have any of the complications that effect roughly 4 out of every 10 baby boys that go through the cosmetic surgery of circumcision.
Ephesians 4:2 NIV
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
Exactly! Ripping off completely healthy genital tissue from a thrashing child slipping into shock is hardly gentle, now is it?
Speaking out against a barbaric procedure from the Victorian era that was NEVER mandated by God in an effort to rescue those form the pain, mutilation and complications that it produces – is an act of love!
Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed. – Proverbs 31:8
I understand you made a choice for your sons, for whatever reason. But the Bible is quite clear that circumcision is not necessary. In America today, it is purely a cosmetic procedure. As such, as I have argued from the Scruptures, it is a sin.
I understand the facts I’ve outlined bother and offend you. But I am not trying to “hurt” you. I know TOO MANY men who live with the decisions their mothers made – contrary to what is explicitly stated in Gods word.
From inability to have children, to botched circumcisions, to personal preference – I know people PERSONALLY who feel violated by their personal rights to bodily integrity being destroyed by their own mothers.
As a Christian, it is my JOB to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. This includes abortion, genital mutilation and anything else that is NOT from God.
Again, sorry if you are sad about this. But it is what it is.
I think you’re missing my point. You should be able to share your opinion without becoming God. Do you think you speak for God? The pharisees were equally convinced.
When you use Scripture, yes, you are letting God use you as a mouthpiece! We are called by Scripture to be God’s hands, feet and mouth in this sinful world. ^_^
“I have put my words in your mouth” – Isaiah 51:16
“For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and spirit, and of joints and marrow, exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.” – Hebrews 4: 12
This clearly struck a nerve with you. Instead of attacking ME, why don’t you address the words of Paul concerning circumcision that I quoted in my original post? Or did you not actually read them?
Read Romans 14 and 15 further for more on the topic of passing judgment on one another.
I’m sorry you feel I am passing judgement on you. I am only stating facts from Scripture. Are sidewalk counselors outside abortion clinics “judgmental” when they try to rescue babies from death, using Scripture to outline the precious rights of the child? Were abolotionists “judgmental” on white slave traders when they sought to argue the precious rights of the black slaves and shut down the slave trade? Likewise, are intactivists who made female circumcision a felony in the United States judgmental?
The issue here has precious little to do with being “judgmental”. If using Scripture to hold human beings accountable for their actions is “judgmental”, then know that Christ commands us to do just that!
The REAL issue here is just how much healthy tissue can you remove from a perfectly formed newborn child, before it becomes wrong? And more importantly: Is God pleased by such actions? Does it glorify Him?
^this. Amen.
Gandhi once said, “Be the change you want to see in the world.”
You are. Thank you for that, as an American man who is informed enough on this issue to know what happened to him, know WHY it happened to him, and be very upset it happened to him.
jhaney, I’m sorry if you’re confronted with the reality of your actions, but Jesus came to set the captives free. Allow him to work in this area of your life instead of fighting truth. 😉
How do they know what they are missing? What are they thankful for? Do they know that many cut American men ONLY have issues when they get older (40/50 plus)?
It’s common psychology… to admit they have a partial penis is threatening to most men. Most insist a little TOO hard their penis is “just fine” and “I’m happy with it”.. these are also the same guys who INSIST that removing 20,000+ nerve receptors actually removes feeling. To hold that view is akin to believing in a flat earth, scientifically speaking…
Actually, while I am pro life I don’t agree with the tactics the sidewalk protestors use. I guess I feel that the way you do something is as important as what you do. That the expectant mother is no less worthy of love and respect as the child within her. The ends don’t justify the means. Fighting cruelty and injustice by being harsh and cruel makes you the same.
Harsh and cruel?! My goodness, reaching out in love to mother and baby, snatching them from the snares of death, and offering a chance at life is anything but! I have actually HELD babies that would be bloody chunks of flesh floating in an abortionists bowl had not strong Christians spoken up and interceded! If you think rescuing those being led to the slaughter is wrong, then you clearly do not serve the same Jesus that drove money changers out of the Temple with a whip and overturned tables!
This is clearly a sensitive topic to you. And I am NOT here to hurt you, attack you, or make you feel bad. That is the LAST thing I want to do. If we serve the same God then we can and should come together in love and unity and seek Gods perspective on this, through Scripture. The questions you need to honestly consider are:
Is the Victorian method of circumcision (removing instead of clipping) something God would ever condone? Scripture speaks abundantly on mutilating our flesh.
Do Christian HAVE to circumcise for salvation? If not, should they? Again, Scripture is abundantly clear on this.
What does God feel about us taking holy mandates of the covenant and using them irreverantly and flippantly? Remember, he KILLED priests who didn’t offer incense with reverence. Scripture is clear on what God feels about twisted worship and covenant acts.
Does circumcision, when medically unnecessary, fulfill your Christian mandate to love, protect and nurture your son?
Are the motives and impulses behind choosing circumcision (cosmetic and personal preference) a valid or Holy reason to permanently alter your sons flesh?
Does your son belong to you or God?
Does your sons penis belong to you or him or God?
“The ends don’t justify the means. Fighting cruelty and injustice by being harsh and cruel makes you the same.”
Except when it comes to sidewalk counseling, the ‘ends’ is the difference between a live baby and a slaughtered one. The woman can be torn and broken or safe and hopeful…what you are calling ‘harsh and cruel’ are the facts as taken from Scripture…we are not called to be meek, but to be true to God and speak out into a dark and dirty world.
Sometimes, you just gotta flip some tables!!
Don’t “demonize” people? Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t demons the ones usually calling for innocent blood to be spilled?
The fact here is it is no longer a requirement for Christians. If you truly believe Jesus came not to do away with the old laws but to fulfill them then you would no longing practicing them. It’s an insult. He shed his blood and his body was destroyed so ours wouldn’t be. To cut our flesh after his sacrifice is a slap in the face to him.
The heart of the issue is love. To live in a way that honors both the old laws and the sacrifice Jesus made to fulfill them is show love and compassion.
Galatians 5:13-14 says:
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
There is nothing loving or compassionate about cutting on an innocent newborn child.
There is no bearing on our salvation placed on cutting our skin or the skin of our children (in fact there an ONLY negative effects) to obey the old laws is to deny that Christ already fulfilled them. God finds no value in the act of circumcision, he finds value in us showing our faith by loving and caring for one another.
Galatians 5:2-6
“Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.”
Well done Gingi. Using the Bible as a barometer, a measure, a scale is the ONLY way to make a stand in this world. The truth is, for too many generations, we were lied to. They (the medical community) allowed, and in some cases encouraged this practice to be ‘routine’. Just like so many other things they do at birth and soon after. Old habits die hard. They are still putting antibiotic ointment in newborn’s eyes to prevent them from contracting gonorreah at birth! With all the medical tests moms go through, it’s insane to think that the woman has not been tested. The use of this medicine is wholly unnecessary for the majority of children. ASK QUESTIONS! I know that it’s impossible to ask what you do not know is an issue..but try to know exactly what and why things are done.
Unfortunately, what is done cannot be undone. Don’t hate/shoot the messenger…any and all parents who’ve done this to their sons. Facts are facts.
We do agree on this and I love to be at peace and find common ground:
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
God bless you all!
This is true.
But it still does not justify foisting this injustice upon unconsenting, and unwilling babies.
And for THAT reason I speak up, for those who do not have a voice beside theirs screams of pain as they are strapped down to a surgical table by their arms and legs, forcibly given their first erection by a doctor, and then violated and mutilated without any kind of effective pain medication.
I am saddened that you would align yourself with a man made atrocity that so clearly flies in the face of what God has planned for the young men that he brings into the world.
But even so, I’ve said my piece and will continue to do so, as God has asked us to in His Holy Word! God bless and take care.
Also, I really wanted to hear your honest answers to these questions:
Is the Victorian method of circumcision (removing instead of clipping) something God would ever condone? Scripture speaks abundantly on mutilating our flesh.
Do Christian HAVE to circumcise for salvation? If not, should they? Again, Scripture is abundantly clear on this.
What does God feel about us taking holy mandates of the covenant and using them irreverantly and flippantly? Remember, he KILLED priests who didn’t offer incense with reverence. Scripture is clear on what God feels about twisted worship and covenant acts.
Does circumcision, when medically unnecessary, fulfill your Christian mandate to love, protect and nurture your son?
Are the motives and impulses behind choosing circumcision (cosmetic and personal preference) a valid or Holy reason to permanently alter your sons flesh?
Does your son belong to you or God?
Does your sons penis belong to you or him or God?
Okay– my thoughts on circumcision are that it is an individual choice best left to the parents. Here is a link to an unbiased pro and con of the issue: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/
I am an older lady now, but when I was young I had strong opinions on topics such as these. I spoke my mind because I felt I was right and had God on my side. Then he humbled me and taught me what matters most. All that really matters is Christ and Him crucified for us! And how to live your life? 1 Corinthians 13 is all you really need.
You see, as much as we study and read His word, this will always be true:
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part;then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:12
So again. Please answer my questions – DIRECTLY in light of 1 Corinthians 13. Please stop skirting the issue and avoiding the questions.
If you would like to post again make sure you have answered EVERY SINGLE question in the list.
Self preservation/duck and cover. Throw up some article that justifies the mistakes of the past. Guilt and remorse can color our perceptions. I wonder, do the moms who allowed this practice done to their sons (out of ignorance mostly), KNOW how their sons feel about it, or THINK THEY KNOW? I can imagine a man, not wanting to add to his mother’s pain and guilt, issuing the the usual ‘guy’ response of ‘no big deal/it’s okay’, just to placate and ease the mother’s mind. If there was a way to ask this man, with complete anonymity, I wonder what his response would be. Do all grown men discuss their ‘personal problems’ with their mothers? I doubt it. As stated, what is done can not be undone. Admitting to mistakes and regrets is the first step to healing.
Yes I believe God feels its okay to remove the foreskin. I don’t feel it has to be done to be saved. I don’t feel that circumcision is breaking any holy mandate. Or that choosing for your child to have it done is wrong, my dad who is uncircumcised chose for my brother so he wouldn’t have to deal with:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epididymitis
Which my dad gets alot and he causes lots of utis for my mom even though he showers and is clean. Our children belong to us and God while we do not hear God speak to us, or hear our babies give there conscent, we as parents make tough life changing decisions that only God can say is wrong. Circumcising is not mutilation, God loves us no matter what we do to our bodies even in death, if he did not than we should be careful as to how we die, if we are not in one piece. The husband and wife are not the only ones who suffer mishap procedures, the parents who love and take care of their child do aswell. Circumcising is to help against utis and for some possible death through bullying thats what some parents think. Not for conforming but for the childs health. C’est le vie.
Made a second comment for I thought 1st was deleted thankyou for not deleting!!!^_^ Curious what is your husbands opinion of circumcision??? Mine agrees with my father on it being less painful if done as a baby because it does seem like it would be tramatizing to have done later. Still though on safety I will look into the idea of later vs earlier for I would not want to be unfortunate and have a boy that was improperly done thanks for the info!!!^_^
I don’t know where everyone’s misinformation comes from but if you think it would be traumatizing later in life for a grown man to be under general anesthesia, have stitches to close his wound instead of gauze, and then have pain medication for weeks after his procedure while also being able to keep it clean instead of having the fresh surgical wound in a dirty diaper, then you are sadly mistaken. A newborn baby can loose as little as one ounce of blood to have a hemorrhage. Circ on babies is done with only topical, if any, pain relief because they cannot handle anesthesia without the risk of death. Babies don’t know why or what’s happening to them. No pain medication is given for the weeks of recovery and the fresh wound is wrapped in vaseline and gauze only and then the boy is forced to urinate and defecate on his own cut open penis and hope it doesn’t get an infection.
UTI’s are very very uncommon in males period, like next to none and can easily be treated with antibiotics just like you would a girl. Many issues intact men have with infections were caused by an old recommendation to their parents to forcibly retract and wash under the foreskin during infancy and childhood before the foreskin was naturally retractable on its own. This allows for small tears between the foreskin and glans and lets in bacteria causing phimosis, paraphimosis, UTI, adhesions, etc.
Read the article you posted, even it said that antibiotics were the treatment for the condition you mentioned. And men don’t give women UTI’s. Sorry, it just doesn’t work that way. Women are more prone to UTI period just because we have so many more fleshy moist folds in our genitals. My elderly neighbor gets them all the time and she hasn’t had sex in 44 yrs! My best friend gets them regularly and her husband is intact. Maybe women should get their genitals cut since we’re so much harder to keep clean?
and for the person saying it’s a “individual choice”, I think again you misunderstand. Individual choice is just that, by the individual, not a third party even if it is the parents. Circ’ is not a life or death decision, it’s really a choice that never needs to be made unless a real need would arise (which by the way is only about 1 in 16,667 intact men would actually have an event in their life where it would be needed). It’s not the parents body or penis, it’s not the family penis. It’s the boys penis. His penis alone to decide what to do with and if he should want or NEED it removed later on, then so be it. I’m sure God will understand if someone needs surgery, like having tonsils or an appendix removed but you don’t see people signing up to have those procedures done.
I like that, “It’s not the family penis, it’s the boys penis.” I need to use that more. I have been talking to a LOT of people recently who practically chant the mantra, “I’m choosing what is best for MY family.” Like Juniors dick is somehow a family affair. Like mommy dearest has a better claim on his junk than, say his future wife. Sick sick sick.
Where do you get the idea that God is okay with REMOVING the foreskin?? Did you read the post about how the modern method is NOT the same as the Biblical method? How do you reason that God is okay with this new Victorian-era method of “masturbation prevention”?
Also, I encourage you to read my previous post here, it addresses most of the issues you raised: http://www.domesticgeekgirl.com/health-home/infant-circumcision-vs-adult-circumcision-why-waiting-is-best/
Facts are, circumcision actually CAUSES more UTIs than it prevents. And if circumcision is an acceptable “UTI prevention” cure, why not circumcise our daughters as well?
Also, it is a FACT that boys have a higher risk of DYING from their circumcision, or having the entire glans accidently amputated, than they have of actually ever needing a circumcision from medical necessity. SO MANY pointless deaths! How could God be OKAY with that?? If you read my above post, you’ll also see how waiting to do the procedure as an adult is safer, more effective and much more humane.
And yes, it is undeniably mutilation. Not just literally (the actual definition of the word), but wholly and totally. Even PAUL himself, in Holy Scripture, calls circumcision mutilation – and keep in mind, this was when it was just a PRICK! Not a full on removal of a sexual organ that has over 15 unique functions for mens health. And YES we DO hear God speak to us – through his Holy Word, the Scriptures.
Any opinions formed outside of Scripture are NOT of God. This isn’t a hard, or unknowable topic! Scripture is clear on how God views unnecessary bodily mutilations!
Also, you asked what MY husband thinks? He thinks he would prefer to be intact. He wishes he was given the choice. And again, as to infant circumcision being less traumatizing? That’s verifiably UNTRUE. Again, please read my previous post (link above) to learn more on that point.
Thanks for joining the convo, I was wrapped up with other things and didn’t get a chance to verify comments. I don’t like to censor on here, unless it’s spam or redundant! 😉
In the case of health and it needed to be done I’m sure God approves and babys do not remember unlike a man who would if circumsized later. If babys remembered than lots of males are scarred for life. If its safer later to do so than for health sake it should be done not for the ideas of masturbation control which was a sickness for some mentally ill patients. Mentioned here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision
Victorians even had wet dream rings to control erections. Women to be cut is completely different it would not stop us from having a uti it would cause more, our labia is a cover that protects our more sensitive region. I feel extremely sorry for women that have been circumcised. Things not mentioned in the Bible does not mean its not true the Bible is a glimpse at our past and future a guide to help us. Not all guides are up to date. In the beginning people lived longer our hygene was extremely different. Some people feel we are all related to Adam and Eve. It did not say that Cain married his sister. God created more people, our beginning is not incest based. There is a giant creature mentioned in the Bible the Leviathan. As industructible as it is mentioned it probably has lots of relatives today that many of us are fortunate not to have seen. Just because you have not seen one does not mean this is not true!!!^_^ Lots of stuff is missing from our history. We will never know the complete story until our own time runs out that is fact. We know only what we are told and read. And what we interpret for ourselves to be true no matter what anyone else says. People who practice medicine would be defined as witches in the Bible which is evil accordingly, that does not make it so. People who heal people should not be labeled as witches saying that they are evil. Times are different so is the definition of mutilation. Tattoos and piercings are not mutilating. Our bodies are just a husk that dies we do not take it with us. Otherwise if we lost any part of our body we should worry for we defiled our temple. It is not wrong to circumcise if it saves the child who is suffering by
doing so and if it eases those who may worry that there child is at a risk of more pain by not. If someone may read your post and was of the percentage that lost there child I do not blame them and I’m sure God forgives them for they have probably punished themselves enough for their loss. I have not read the other post of circumcising later I will, and I will check the statistics to see and the questionability of the doctor who would do it. But it is healthier to be circumcised for a male learning from my dad who is not and still is not because he does not like the idea of the pain in removing, though it would save him from his testicals swelling up every so often.
“If babys remembered than lots of males are scarred for life.” – Yes!! Yes it does!
Lack of personal choice in infant circumcision puts the child in lifetime risk of feeling victimized.
A poll of circumcised men published in the British Journal of Urology describes adverse outcomes on men’s health and well-being in forced infant circumcisions. Findings showed wide-ranging physical, sexual, and psychological consequences. Some respondents reported prominent scarring and excessive skin loss. Sexual consequences included progressive loss of sensitivity and sexual dysfunction. Emotional distress followed the realization that they were missing a functioning part of their penis. Low self esteem, resentment, avoidance of intimacy, and depression were also noted. As the nation continues to drastically become a non-circumcising one, (at the going rate, my sons generation will see only one in ten boys circumcised), the odds of feeling victimized and experiencing psychological trauma is much higher. Grown men that choose circumcision, on the other hand, enjoy a self-assurance and confidence that they are in control and making their own choices and face no risk of psychological trauma.
Lack of choice greatly increases chances of post traumatic stress disorder.
Using case examples that are typical among his clients, a practicing psychiatrist, J. Rhinehart, in his study “Neonatal Circumcision Reconsidered”, published in the Transactional Analysis Journal, presents clinical findings regarding the serious and sometimes disabling long-term somatic, emotional, and psychological consequences of infant circumcision in adult men. These consequences resemble complex post-traumatic stress disorder and emerge during psychotherapy focused on the resolution of perinatal and developmental trauma. Adult symptoms associated with circumcision trauma include shyness, anger, fear, powerlessness, distrust, low self-esteem, relationship difficulties, and sexual shame. Good news for victimized men circumcised by ignorant or uncaring parents: Long-term psychotherapy dealing with early trauma resolution appears to be effective in healing post traumatic stress (though it won’t remove your regret at being sexually altered against your will). Grown men, of course, are at little to no risk of post traumatic stress disorder, having chosen circumcision for themselves as a personal preference.
CLEARLY you have NOT read the link I have submitted (written by me) that answers a LOT of your comments, questions and misconceptions about forced infant circumcision.
Before commenting again, please read this post. It will save us BOTH a lot of time. 😉
http://www.domesticgeekgirl.com/health-home/infant-circumcision-vs-adult-circumcision-why-waiting-is-best/
My husband is also prone to epidydmitis and he is circumcised. Circumcision is NOT healthier and does nothing to prevent these infections. According to the urologist, some men are just “lucky”. So in addition to frequent testicular infections, he also can’t feel anything when we have sex *and* the altered mechanics of his mutilated penis tear my vagina all to pieces. Sex is harder on my perineum than having a baby has been. Thanks to my inlaws, my sex life was ruined before I was even born. Healthier, my foot.
The evidence is overwhelming for those who are honestly seeking the facts.. circumcision is NOT healthier! Thank you for sharing your experience!
Yeah, it makes me laugh whenever women are like, “Well I asked my son how he likes his partial penis, and he likes it just dandy!” It’s like, uhhh, okay. Why don’t you also ask him how difficult it is to achieve climax, be stimulated, if his lack of foreskin is a problem with lubrication during penetration and every other thing I’m sure mothers and sons LOOOOOVE to talk about when it comes to the over 15 sexual functions you had RIPPED from your son…
When my sons were born, I felt that, as a Christian, I could not possibly cut off parts of THEIR genitals. I have the parts and I would never want to have them cut off of me. Almost no men that have the parts choose to have them removed. The protection and sensory input is valuable and natural (sorry if TMI). So to take this from another human would essentially violate both laws of Christ. I would have harmed (destroyed erogenous tissue, disconnected sensory system nerves) a creation of God (Love of God issue) and I would have taken something from another I KNOW they would WANT — just as I and almost ALL men do (Love of Neighbor issue). As the person would want the parts, it is only their individual decision to remove them.
As an aside, I have read that their are early versions of the Abraham story (Genesis) in which cutting genital parts is not mentioned and that the entire thing was added later.
I hope all parents give the individual the gift of all of their body.
It’s common sense for Christians who take Scripture seriously. You do not OWN your children. Their bodies do NOT belong to you to maim or destroy or harm at your whim. To think otherwise it CONTRARY to Christ!
As an aside, I have read that there are early versions of the Abraham story (Genesis) in which cutting genital parts is not mentioned and that the entire cutting males as part of the covenant was added later. {Corrected}
It never ceases to amaze me that people do not realise these things:
Circumcision is given to Abraham as a punishment for assuming to know the mind of God.
Christ’s blood was spilled so we do not have to spill blood. This includes his circumcision, his death and his trial of faith in the wilderness.
Less than 1/16000 men will ever NEED a medical circumcision, so why exactly do we do it to them “just in case”? Preventing adult circumcision by being gentle to the penis in childhood is far superior to removing the foreskin “just in case”.
God Bless and thankyou for your article
Thank you for your comment! Too often, I get people telling me in person, or in private e-mail – “Great job!! I support you!” while remaining silent on the thread.. lol. Not that I need my back patted for standing for the truth, but it’s nice when the “Great jobs” and “thank yous” are public! 😉
I just wanted to thank you for this post! While I do not shun anyone who decides to circumcise their son, through reading your blog, I have realized it is not for me.
Honestly, you never hear anyone talk about circumcision, and they make it seem so easy. I try to live as “naturally” as possible, but there is so much to research, that there are certain topics I take for granted (one of those being circumcision). I’ve been fervently researching breastfeeding, physical block sunscreen, natural birth, etc. . . I thought circumcision was one of those topics I didn’t have to look into (because frankly, there is enough we’re not informed about to keep me /more/ than busy!).
After skimming your post I thought, “Is circumcision really this big of a deal?”. But I started doing more research, and watched a few videos on youtube with my husband (who prior, had really wanted our possible future son to look like him- circumcised), and we decided it was not for us (in a really BIG way!). I think I would have been in tears when my baby came back to me, and I saw what had taken place. I just had no idea what the process was like, etc. . .
I cannot even imagine trying to heal myself, while my son is dealing with a healing process as well. Or breastfeeding after such a procedure. I’m just SO unbelievably thankful I learned about this! So thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! : )
WOW, this comment seriously made my day! THIS is why I write. And sometime the negative comments from people taking my research and information sharing as “mean” or “hateful” start to get to me.. then I see someone benefiting from my posts and it makes me feel awesome. I am a truth junkie. And I tend to tackle the taboo because no one else will. Thank you for sharing with me! Seriously made my day!! *hugs*
Awesome, in-depth article.. I shared on my FB page 🙂 And I read all the comments as well… I’m a bit speechless over the willful ignorance on a few of them lol, but you responded wonderfully. Also, thank you for including my graphic in your article (the one from facebook.com/gracebasedliving)<3
Thank YOU for making the graphic and letting me share! (Though I probably should have asked first!) I was trying to hammer this out QUICKLY for a friend of mine who intended to circumcise her son. She said if I could “prove” that Scripture condemns circumcision, she wouldn’t do it. When I wrote this and sent her the link, she REFUSED to read it, and to my knowledge, still intends to circumcise. So so so sad to me, to intentionally close eyes and mind to follow selfish impulses.. 🙁
P.S. seeing as you’re a self-professed geek, is it safe to assume you’re a Whovian? If so, hello fellow Whovian 😀 Crunchy Christian Whovian… really can’t get much better than that!!!
LOL! I actually WASN’T when I started this blog… then my husband MADE ME watch the 9th to the current doctor and now, while I’m not a die hard fan, I rather like the show… especially the Weeping Angels. They freak me the freak out man! Yay!! HI NEW FRIEND! I’m gonna go contact you on Facebook now like a creeper. 😉
Hey, this is a fantastic post. I’d like to touch base with you sometime soon just to chat—we’re a Christian group doing work against circumcision in the US.
Yes, of course!! Hit me up anytime! – gingifreeman@gmail.com
Amen amen amen! Thank you for your wonderful article! I’m a nurse practitioner, and very well aware that there are NO medical organizations that recommend routine infant circumcision- most world authorities actually warn against the practice, recognizing that it is amputating healthy functional tissue without the baby’s consent. Most of the world does NOT cut their baby boys!
Also, as a Christian, I have seen over and over in the New Testament that cutting of our bodies does NOT provide any spiritual benefit, in fact Paul warns against those who “mutilate the flesh”. It is all part of the “Old Covenant”. And there was a HUGE difference between Biblical circumcision and the modern kind, that is very damaging.
As a nurse, I have seen baby boys refuse to nurse, have seen infections, and had to witness a circumcision which was very heartbreaking. I caution all my friends and patients against cutting their perfect baby boys.
I highly encourage all future parents to read these:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/06/information-on-circumcision-for.html
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/foreskin-why-it-such-secret-north-america
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/morten-frisch/time-for-us-parents-to-reconsider-the-acceptability-of-infant-male-circumcision_b_7031972.html
http://birthwithoutfearblog.com/2011/11/27/the-circumcision-decision/
To the nurse practitioner using references from the huffington post and drmomma shame on you! As a medical professional you should know better.
So what do I do now if I regret circumcising my sons? If I have another son and don’t circ him, how do I discuss this with my other sons without making them feel bad about their genitals? I know that circumcision isn’t necessary to Christians, but I didn’t know it was wrong. I thought since the Jews did it, that no harm was being done to my boys (not realizing that Biblical circ is different than modern, complete removal of foreskin) I wish my husband and I had known. We would have made a different decision.
Thanks for your article. I would like some more clarity on why you say the “circumcision that Abraham and his descendants practiced was something entirely different from modern circumcision. Biblical circumcision merely involved cutting the tip of the foreskin, not completely removing it!”
I have discussed this claim with Jews, who all claim that the circumcisions performed today are done in the same way as Abraham’s day. The bible does also talk of foreskins being removed (more than just tips), whether that be Zipporah circumcising her son or Joshua circumcising the sons of Israel at the “hill of foreskins”.
I’m not saying I agree with how circumcisions are done generally in hospitals, but I have read that mohels do it quickly and without causing much pain (the same as in bible times).